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 Post subject: Re: WorldBingo Network
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:45 am 
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There are things we cannot disclose at this time. If you have any trust at all in BPU, let us get these people their winnings. It is any sites option to close an account for any reason they see fit. It is in the rules of every single site on the net. They ALL have the option to do this for whatever reasons they choose. We have NEVER liked those parts of the rules BUT, all online bingo players agree to those rules when they make their first deposit. We are in total agreement here.

But in reality it is awful hard for me (speaking for myself only) to down a site who has at least taken care of, or ARE taking care of the winnings players entered a withdrawl for, whether they close their accounts or not.

I can say this is a far cry from those sites who will not respond to their players OR to BPU in our efforts to try to help some. There comes a time when you have to have your eyes open and look for the good as well as the bad. There are times when circumstances force both sites and players to make a decision as to what is best for them concerning their online bingo.

Quote:
to close an account because somebody had the nerve to request a payout seems pretty petty to me.


BPU staff would like to request that all of our members not assume anything in this case. We simply are not at liberty to discuss the reasons as per our agreement to get these players their money. Can you find it within you to see any positive at all from this? I most certainly do. I see players getting paid their money... that is why they came here.

I see a very important part of WBN being changed.... gifting. I do believe we were instrumental in this happening. We are taking baby steps and may not handle things to suit everyone, but are still on a steady course of trying to bring about changes that will help the players. There are MANY MANY things that go on here with sites and players that never reaches the open forum . We are not hiding, but have found it is much easier to handle issues through private channels than in open. Trust me when I say that one day this will all be clear to everyone.


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 Post subject: I totally trust BPU
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:54 pm 
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and I am very happy to see players finally being paid, even if it took involving BPU in order to get their money.

Although I am also happy to see some of the bingo sites on the internet making strides to win back the trust of their players and becoming more fair, the fact that all of them still have that clause of being able to close your account for any reason they alone determine and can do it without any notice or communication with the players prior to closing those accounts, there will still be many winners who will never see their money strictly because once the account is closed by the site, you lose not only the ability to find out why, but also your winnings since they also state that you can and many times do forfeit all money in your account.

Baby steps I understand....refusing to communicate with the registered player and forcing that player to involve a third party to find out what's happened is still high on my own personal list of one of those steps forward that needs to be taken by the sites. I'm not pointing the finger at WBN with that statement....that is a pretty widespread problem within the online bingo community.


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 Post subject: Re: WorldBingo Network
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:33 pm 
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Quote:
Baby steps I understand....refusing to communicate with the registered player and forcing that player to involve a third party to find out what's happened is still high on my own personal list of one of those steps forward that needs to be taken by the sites.

All parties involved in the WBN issue agreed to having us involved! No Player was refused communication and forced to have a third party (BPU) involved. I have no idea why you think that!

Quote:
I'm not pointing the finger at WBN with that statement....that is a pretty widespread problem within the online bingo community.

Are you saying that 3rd party intervention into player issues is a widespread problem? Last I checked most sites frown upon 3rd party intervention. But we have noticed, that although some sites may state this, most of the sites we contact with player issues are cooperative.


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 Post subject: Re: WorldBingo Network
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:30 am 
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Quote:
and I am very happy to see players finally being paid, even if it took involving BPU in order to get their money.




Thats what BPU does, we work with sites and players to get the players their monies. When we as players join a site we agree to their terms and conditions and one of them is that sites have the right to close accts at their discretion., and we agree to this rule by joining their sites.We may not like it but we agree to it.

Sissy kindly asked for everyone to be patient, not jump to conclusions, nor speculate
but to trust that BPU has done what they are supposed to do and that is help players get their monies, which we have done.

When we as players quit a site most of us do so at our own discretion and for whatever reason and we don't tell a site why we have quit them as we have every right too, I perhaps don't always agree that players can not get a reason why accts are
closed but sites do have that right to withold that information as per our signing the agreement when we sign up.

Knowing from 1st hand experience as a CS, just as Sissy does there are many reasons
an acct is closed and I might add rightfully so, and sites do not need to tell the person why, some reasons are to save players embarassment as well as a few others.

We BPU may be a third party but there are plenty of players out there that are happy that we are around and trust us to do what is best for them the player.

Nothimg about on line bingo is perfect and will never be perfect but sites and players that do work with BPU know that both will get a chance to be heard, and whatever dispute is being handled will be done in a courteous, and professional manner.

Nit picking serves no purpose as it changes not one thing and only inflames that which does not need to be inflamed. When a site listens to its players and has input from a
third party and something that has been around forever is changed my hats off to the site that changes a very important thing and that is doing away with the gifting. I for one commend them on this move they have taken and in the long run it will not only be a benfit to the site itself but most importantly to the players of on line bingo.

There is good at sites and good sites just as there is bad at a site and bad sites, so
in my opinion there will always be a need for 3rd party intervention to help players, until the day comes when all sites have attained perfection, and even when that day comes there will always be those that will find fault with something.


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 Post subject: Excuse me, but
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:26 am 
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I don't consider having an account closed without an explanation as 'nit picking'.

Quote:
sites do have that right to withold that information as per our signing the agreement when we sign up.


Although all sites have the rule in place that they can close an account for any reason they determine, I don't recall any of them saying that they also have the right to not tell that player the reason. In many cases, it could be a very simple misunderstanding, but without a reason being given and no access to the site to find out, how does a person defend himself and possibly straighten out the problem if the site shuts you out of the equation?

If a site can insist that you send personal documentation, including the CVN number of your credit card number, there is absolutely NO reason why a site can't email the player with the reason for the account being disabled. Embarrassment is no excuse....I would gladly explain an embarrassing situation in order to straighten out a problem if possible rather than be dumped by a site with no explanation at all. Every person who has come here with a problem and asked for help has taken embarrassment to a high level by giving BPU full access to represent them in order to sort out a problem....what makes a bingo site so reluctant to confront that issue one on one with the player and accomplish the same goal?

Every site I have ever quit playing at, I have sent a tt or an email telling them why I am unhappy about something....I fully expect that a site should have enough balls to talk to me, since they have the testostrogen in abundance when they shut me out in the first place. Being empowered shouldn't be a one-way street. My money helped keep them afloat, and it should at the very least deem the respect due me by telling me why they don't want me at their site anymore.

WBN had already closed my account by accusing me of multiple account reasons (I posted that information here); however, they were too little with that too late because they had three years or more to discover that problem since I had repeatedly over time asked them if I had multiple accounts due to mergers, etc. and help me work that out because I had already sent them an email first telling them I was quitting their site, so I took away their power. BPU is asking that we not speculate or rock the boat with WBN in order to get the other players paid as promised....that is utter blackmail garbage. WBN cannot hurt ME because I don't belong with them anymore, so if I say anything against them, they are going to do what????? Withhold payment to OTHER people because BPU can't control their membership?????? This is not speculation....Sissy pretty much said this exact same thing in her post.

Quote:
IMPORTANT!!! Aside from the players who have already come to BPU for help with their issues concerning WBN, we will no longer be taking any new complaints. Should anyone have a complaint, they should take them directly to WBN to handle.


Quote:
There are things we cannot disclose at this time. If you have any trust at all in BPU, let us get these people their winnings.


Quote:
BPU staff would like to request that all of our members not assume anything in this case. We simply are not at liberty to discuss the reasons as per our agreement to get these players their money. Can you find it within you to see any positive at all from this? I most certainly do. I see players getting paid their money... that is why they came here.


I don't know what the problem is with the admins of BPU anymore, but the restrictions regarding free speech in here has become as restrictive as chatrooms in online bingo sites anymore. You tell us to not make any assumptions but you feed us information in bits and drabs leaving us to do nothing BUT make assumptions or speculate because you have cut some kind of deal behind closed doors with sites and always with a promise that 'more is coming' but we aren't allowed to even ask questions anymore without stepping on somebody's toes.

As an example: You just posted that WBN is paying the players who have already complained about non payment in BPU, BUT you are no longer going to take any complaints against that site, evidently as part of a deal you have made with them (again, an assumption on my part because you gave NO explanation as to WHY you won't take any further complaints regarding nonpayment to players from WBN). So where does that leave any future players who don't get payment and has their accounts closed conveniently by WBN?

I posted a complaint that my account at IPlay by Maxi for posting publicly in BPU about them. I was immediately reprimanded for making an assumption because it wasn't actually Maxi who closed the account, but another bigwig at IPlay.

I posted speculation about an organization called Bingo Worldwide Limited....that is advertising publicly that they own at least three networks or sites that BPU has blacklisted, but also publicly is advertising that they also own BingoMania, which happens to be on the approved list here. I was again immediately reprimanded for breaking a rule here regarding saying anything adverse regarding an approved site without asking BPU about it privately first. Have you guys done ANYTHING about checking into that company? I don't think so because you seem to be too busy cutting deals with WBN now that they have announced that they aren't going to allow gifting anymore. Big freaking deal if they are still closing accounts of people they owe money to and convinced BPU that you should take no further complaints about that huge issue.

As to your comment about 'third party' intervention in order to get people paid....BPU advertises in their own banner about how you have managed to get thousands of dollars paid to people who have been ripped off by online bingo sites. If that's not third party intervention, what is? The whole purpose of BPU's existence has previously been to get sites to deal with their players fairly....which includes having a place to come to with complaints about sites, which I have repeatedly been reprimanded for by the admins here.

Comparing BPU with bingo site chatrooms where no one is allowed to verbalize a complaint without being warned or having chat disabled, it is beginning to seem that BPU only wants posts that are giving kudos to a site, even if the only thing that site has changed is that they are willing to 'talk' to BPU even if they change nothing else at their site or they give a token gesture, such as stopping gifting with the understanding that BPU will no longer take complaints from members about that site or pay a couple of people while ignoring others who will remain unpaid (there are a number of sites that have done that just to shut BPU up).

Like I said, I don't know what's going on with BPU anymore, but this site no longer is what you are representing yourselves to be. It seems, more and more, that you are advocates for bingo sites rather than advocates for players. You cite baby steps regarding changes....I personally feel that you have spun into a totally different direction and have settled for tokens rather than advocating any real changes. You had more integrity previously, in my opinion, when you didn't take any crap from any site and made more strides with changes. You most certainly would not have agreed to not take complaints about a site in order to get the ones who DID complain and needed your help to get paid.

You have disappointed me. If you don't want people making assumptions, then you have little choice but to actually give people information and not inuendo or to stop dangling tidbits such as 'we'll tell you at some future date'. It's kind of like reading a series of Harry Potter books.....some day maybe we'll get the whole story, when BPU decides to tell it or because some site has finally given you permission to inform your membership. Heaven forbid, BPU should protect its membership from depositing at a site while you work out your behind the scenes deals.

I'm heading to the bathroom to throw up now..........


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 Post subject: Re: WorldBingo Network
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:36 am 
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It is unfortunate that you feel this way as you have brought many many good points to BPU for the membership. Yes you might have received a slap on the wrist once in awhile for something just as others have but you have never been censored nor your freedom of speech taken away.

You can speculate all you want but Sissy tried to explain things as best she could, if you think we just sit twiddling our thumbs when players come to us for help you are badly mistaken and if it means dealing with sites not in open forum then thats what we will do to make sure players get their monies. Any dealings we have that are not in open forum will be given in open forum when the time is right.

Yes we have changed and though you may not think so by changing and working with some sites instead of against them we have helped implement for the betterment of players some changes. We don't crow about it but post it in the appropriate section such as the change in how often one hjas to deposit just too name one.

It is obvious that the gifting was not high on your priority list but it most certainly was a high priority for those players that pay to play when they can and not play against players that only play on gifts.

Sissy asked that she be trusted on this issue but you have seen fit too once again take it upon yourself to make BPU look bad and infer that we don't work for the players anymore. You have been around long enough to know that everything changes, and if we feel the need to work with sites to get better conditions for the players you seem to feel we have done something wrong, perhaps you would rather it was the same as when BPU 1st started and all we did was bash sites.

We still have our rogue and blacklist sites and we keep hammering at them in hopes they will change or won't have the player base anymore to be viable. It doesn't take a mental giant to realize that by working with players and sites alike that some things have changed in the unregulated world of on line bingo and a good part of it comes from being able to work with both.

You are a Watch Dog and do a good job of that. BPU is an advocacy group and that means we work with both players and sites and we are very good at that.

Sissy's request was not intended for speculation, she stated what she could but asked politely that these things would be brought out as soon as she was able, but once again conclusions were jumped on and your disdain for BPU was made loud and clear.

We got the message.


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 Post subject: Re: WorldBingo Network
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:33 pm 
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We do what we do. We do it in a manner that accomodates players with issues. We kiss A$$ when necessary, to help the players. We release information that needs to be released. We honor privacy when necessary. We spend hours upon hours trying to find some good. We give and we take. Reading or belonging to BPU is an individual choice. Love it or leave it. That simple.

When the fact that players are not going to quit playing finally smacked us in the face, our direction DID turn. We are going with the flow and doing what we have to do. We were not now or then asking for permission. We will continue to do what we do. One ounce of good in any given week is something that makes me smile.

Now if we could finally gt back to the topic of this forum, we still have work to do.


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 Post subject: Re: WorldBingo Network
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:09 pm 
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Once again I find myself needing to remind certain readers of our Mission Statement that we put together in Oct 2005. The concept was simple: Players & Bingo Sites working together, through BPU to resolve Player Issues.

I believe we have pretty much kept to our original concept and have made great strides in getting sites to consider and resolve players issues. The Majority of the online Bingo Industry are now willing to work with us to resolve players Issues.

We did not achieve this success by Bashing Sites and pissing them off That proved unsuccessful in the 2004 & 2005 Bingo Watch Dog forums and BPU took the next logical step, that was: Why not open a channel of communication with them and see what happens. We did and many were receptive.

Yes! Much of what we do is behind closed doors! Sometimes at the request of the player and sometimes the site or both. Fact is we don’t just collect winnings for players, we also have had some success in getting sites to end some policies, that players deem unfair.

From a recent post:
Quote:
I don't know what's going on with BPU anymore, but this site no longer is what you are representing yourselves to be. It seems, more and more, that you are advocates for bingo sites rather than advocates for players.


This poster obviously does not have a clue as to what we do! We work with both Players and Bingo Sites. Its common knowledge that there are bad sites out there, But also! There are bad players out there also. Examples of this can be found in our forum!

I have held my tongue in NAVYMANS-MOM ranting in her last post. But some stuff needs to be addressed. Her whole post reeked of vindictiveness for BPU Staff coming down on her for posting Misinformation. I should not have to remind the membership, but because of her I feel I have to that, It’s not the poster that is ultimately responsible for what they present on our forum, that burden is on BPU Staff. It is our responsibility to correct and point out any Misinfomation as we find it! Key words here are: As we find it! We do rely on our experienced members to make sure what they post is correct. Frankly! NAVYMANS-MOM posts have been sloppy and lacking facts.

Instead of taking this as constructive criticism she perceived it as a personal attack and since has a vindictive attitude toward BPU, when she now posts. I’m real sorry that our time line for reporting what we do does not satisfy your curiosity. We do have players interest at heart, and when the time is right, we will make a statement, but will not be intimidated by a Disgruntled Member that end her post with:
Quote:
I'm heading to the bathroom to throw up now.......…


Now as I promised here is our original Statement: Please feel free to point out exactly where we strayed from our original Statement. Membership comments are welcome!



Quote:
Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:45 pm

Post subject: Our Mission!

The purpose of this forum is to form a union between Bingo Players and Bingo Sites. Today’s players are more informed, through online forums, of what goes on in sites and are well aware of how certain sites use shady practices to give the house the advantage! The term House Player (once a taboo subject) is now understood by the savvy player!

Watch Dog groups surfaced because so many players were complaining about being ripped off. Many sites were exposed. There has been an ongoing, heated debate between this group and the industry, with the players having to decide who is right and who is wrong. The possibility of both these groups working together to make Online Bingo Fair & Square is null! There has to be a better way, another solution to this endless back and forth bashing.

This site is about Players and the Industry working together! There is no site bashing allowed! Bashing is: To engage in harsh, accusatory, threatening criticism. There is a difference between reporting a bad experience, with a site and out and out attacking them. Poster are urged to select their words carefully, when posting a complaint against a site.

Our commitment is to find the Honest Sites and affiliate with them. If a member has an issue, with a site we are affiliated with, they can PM a staff member and we will intercede, on your behalf and seek a solution with that site. That is why we are a Union! Working together for solutions. We all benefit! If a site is non responsive, we will drop our connection with them and place their site on the list of Sites To Avoid; I don't like the term Black List.

Mind you that our site and concept are new! We will add approved sites as we sift through them, but this will be a slow process Please have patience and Welcome to The Bingo Player’s Union





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 Post subject: Re: WorldBingo Network
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:14 am 
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Posts: 10
=D> Thank you Sissy and BPU for all that you are doing and achieving! =D>

I have not returned to online bingo since my previous notes but in time and with alot of research for an honest and fun site I may one day play again. :-??

All the very best to everyone out there!!! :ymhug:

Cathie


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 Post subject: Re: WorldBingo Network
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:19 am 
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Hi yummimmmi thank you for your post. It is very kind of you to say and in the scheme of things makes what we do all worth it.

Have a great day!


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 Post subject: Re: WorldBingo Network
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:57 am 
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Hey Cathie!!! Glad BPU could help you out. GL in your search and may the Bingo Gods smile on you.


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 Post subject: Re: WorldBingo Network
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:36 pm 
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Me too, I most assuredly should have publicly posted my sincere Thank You as well. The winnings you helped me receive helped me in ways I can't express, work related issues have made times a little tough and having come into some nice wins was timely to say the least...Thanks so very much

Don't stop doing what you do, it is appreciated and I won't lie, I would love to be able to get back on the site and win some more like that but, it isn't the time...I got myself pretty obsessed about the whole issue and now I'm just happy to have had your help to get the lucky winnings and take it as a lesson learned...Very best regards from Cyndy


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 Post subject: Re: WorldBingo Network
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:03 pm 
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Working in an online Bingo site has opened my eyes to many more things than I knew before. It has also given me the insight to be assured there are ALWAYS two sides to every story. One of the things that I have learned that has been covered with this whole WBN thing is that sites do audit accounts, game play, deposit and withdrawal habits and IP locations of accounts. Flags are sent to management if an account is logged into from a different IP address, which could either mean different physical location OR different computers. These flags are simply that.. a flag to let the company know that there is "suspicious" activities occurring on an account.

I think one of the main objectives here is for us to keep the word "suspicious" in the proper context. It does not mean anyone was cheating. It simply means that something out of the ordinary is happening. All of these things send flags to auditing. Again, it is both for the sites AND the players protection.

Many sites cross reference IP accounts to make sure players do not have any duplicate accounts which is in the sites favor. They also monitor these as a policy to protect the privacy of the players. It is no secret of the identity theft online. Where I work it is against the rules to let anyone else play on your account. That protects both the site and the player from a scenerio of "I didn't know so and so was playing" or "I did not play those games" or "I did not give my permission for that transaction". Or, if something was said in chat that was rude or obnoxious, for WHATEVER reason, I have seen tickets stating "oh that was my kid, I didn't know they were on my account".

It is imperative that NO ONE else has access to your online bingo account!! At most sites it is grounds for account closure. I am NOT stating that anyone has done this or been accused of it, simply that these are things that won't happen if you are the only one using your account.

Accounts at WBN were closed in accordance with site rules and regulations. Audits picked up on what they determined were suspicious play habits, NO ONE has been accused of cheating. ALL players who have come forward with account closure issues and/or withdrawal issues either have been finalized. They are receiving NOT only what they asked to have withdrawn, but actually everything in their accounts are being paid, as some left money in there to play on. In BPU's opinion this is a plus for WBN.

I have known of sites who close accounts of those who win and withdraw what they feel is "too much". I believe that is what is referred to as "risk management". I do not believe this is the case at WBN as even the players have admitted only withdrawing small amounts.

The account closures were because of suspicious activities... period. Nothing personal for any one player, just too many similarities in game play. Whether we think this is right or wrong, it is within WBN's right to do so.

Thanks for the patience some have shown. It is apprediated!


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