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 Post subject: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:40 pm 
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It is gambling ya know...roomies say it to each other, chat hosts point it out when they hear a squeaky noise coming from a player that they have been losing too much or seeing the same winners.
Time to make it as much as a gamble for the sites!

If you win more than you deposit, you become ineligible for depo bonuses and in some cases special "active player promos". That is a definite safeguard to keep sites in the black. NOT gambling!

They have complete dominion over every issue and have protected their rights to block you or ban you with some rule they might have just initiated..just for you. They state the right to remove bonuses and balances at their whims. NOT gamblng!

Unverified "monitors" and overseers pasted on their website to elicit assurance that they are authentic and honest. Try sending them an identification without a thorough and positive affirmation that it is genuine and they kick you to the curb. They take your money with an open hand and a big hug and smile...try to get some back that you have rightfully won! NOT gambling!


The true gamble for players is selecting a site that recognizes the concept of gambling as an equally shared proposition, not a sidewalk shell game with a slick professional pocketing the cash of naive passersby.Online bingo sites are ever expanding and complex arenas that have become very adept at fielding every possibility that may cause them to actually lose in any way.NOT gambling!


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:33 pm 
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Very well put dynamitewoman. I totally agree with you on every point you have made. However, I would suggest that only the bad sites continually do the NOT GAMBLING things and the legitimate sites wouldn't think of doing them.


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:51 pm 
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:-\ @-) :-o Sounds pretty hairy huh? Not so that all good sites wouldnt dream of doing any of those things..they are pretty much standard applications that are in house rules. The main thing a "good" site wouldnt do is stall on payouts or dig up some faulty reason you will not get your money. The others..all pretty much standard at most sites. Go ahead and check it out.


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:59 pm 
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Oh, dynamitewoman, I believe everything you say here. After all you have been in this business for a long time and I'm sure you have seen it all by now. It's still such a disgrace that these sites still exist.


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:24 am 
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With the options given to all sites by themselves, It is more standard operating features than a good or bad thing. It is very common to deny depositing bonuses if you have had a withdrawal and have not put more( or an equal amount) into the site than you have taken out...Even in some highly regarded bingo sites. Is this a bad thing? For the player it is, for the site it is a guarantee that they are not going to pay out more than they take in. Not much of a site gamble involved there. So for them it is a good thing.
playthrough is another feature. Where in this world do you gamble in any sense of the word, that you can not get your winnings until you have spent an amount indicated to satisfy the proprietor? Would be like walking into vegas, putting a couple bucks on a number, winning, and then being told you can not have it because you have not spent enough money in the casino.
Only online bingo can demand such a price from their clients...and get it. It is SOP..Standard Operating Procedure.


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:25 am 
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Great analogy dynamitewoman. I have walked into a casino and up to a slot machine and won on the first pull and walked away with my winnings. Think about it that way you can see that will NEVER happen in an online bingo room. The sad part is that not many people live near a B&M bingo hall or casino so the only option they have is to pour their money into a bingo room online. Very sad to think about really.


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:50 am 
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"It" is also each individuals right to accept these terms should they choose. No one holds a gun to anyone's head and MAKES them play online bingo. I do believe I have a much more in depth awareness of what actually does go on within a bingo site.

The reason I went to work at one was so I could present more factual information to those who CHOOSE to play. I accomplish at least a tidbit of that every single day. I am here now, always have been and always will be, to help the player who may be seeking help.

But let's turn this one sided and IMO, biased conversation to involve both sides. The players and the sites.

Does anyone have a clue what happens when a player, who for one reason or another, makes a "chargeback" on their account at a site? What is the chain of events? Does this player suffer? Does this player lose? Does the players lose access to the processor services after x amount of incidents with chargebacks?

Has anyone here been privvy to help or support tickets? Does anyone have a clue what a site goes thru and the exhorbitant fees THEY pay to keep a decent site open that players can enjoy bingo because they want to.... not because they HAVE to? Does any know, or frankly, even care, that for every deposit a site takes in, they are gambling whether they will get the completed portion of the funds left after processor fees etc?

Hell YES the sites ( one in particular I know of anyway) takes gambles on a daily basis! Let's see...... sites have advertising fees, processor fees, staff paychecks, legal fees, country taxes and charges, and withdrawals as regular monies to be covered. Now let's get to the cost of the software that seems such a touchy subject. Does anyone know or have a clue what this software costs? I DO!! Although ethics keep me from naming a specific amount, it would make most of you choke on your morning coffee, if someone were to say it outloud over breakfast. No.. sites do not have to pay these fees.. the same as players do not have to fund. It is a choice both makes with every right to do just that.

Yet some continue to rag sites ( agreed that some need ragging) about the need to "make a profit". Some go overboard. Others barely keep their heads above water and still maintain a good player database because they are fair and honest. Of course they have rules in place to protect themselves! As players, our rules may not be written down anywhere, but we still set limits and guidelines for ourselves. This is reflected every time you see a player say " I will never play there again". They have set a rule for themselves to follow in order to protect themselves.

Fair for the players but not for the sites? I wish everyone could see what I have seen as far as anyone saying "the sites do not gamble a thing". When you say this, you show just how little you actually do know as a fact. Speculation has always been a very fragile subject here at BPU. Opinions are just that... not FACT, simply opinions.

I will stick to facts. They work for me. The speculation, IMO, is a pure and simple waste of good forum space. I am, as always, here for any player who needs my attention. Regardless of my job, I am still 100% for the players and willling to do whatever I can do to make their love of bingo a more pleasant thing.


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:08 pm 
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Online bingo is a business... ergo...overhead..... The cost of maintaining the website that includes all specifics of daily operations and maintenance. It should not be part of a players interest or responsibility to take into account the cost involved on the sites end. Do they take into account you may have a huge **, dreadfully large medical bills, or are supporting your family alone on a limited income? That is not their business to be a part of your accountability or resources when they are dealing with you as a depositor. Personally, I do not care how much it costs to run a bingo website, nor do I feel compelled to factor that in when I make a decision to accept a sites policies and rules regarding what will affect me as a player.
Basic operational costs exist in every business venture, and the potential for suffering loss at some point is a possibility.
What I am saying about online bingo is that the odds of having that loss are diminished by the "right" of every online owner to establish their own rules and criteria within the arena of gaming. When you must maintain a specific balance to deposit, withdraw, receive bonuses, etc. When a site can pay wins back on their OWN schedule and time frame, when your withdraws outweigh your deposits, you may lose bonus perks and particular features afforded to those that have not been "lucky" winners.
They guarantee themselves a deposit from any player that wants to be considered " active" in any time space they choose. Some sites are now giving players the option to not take a deposit bonus , thus eliminating playthru, but given the population of most sites now and the max players, it is almost fool hardy to not be on the same footing with others as far as purchasing power unless you have a lot to invest in online gaming.
Lets talk about a withdraw...generally, it sounds very simple and possible...until you actually may find yourself in a position to do that. There are fees, documents that must be approved as legal and legible, all playthru accomplished and a clearance for a single valid account must be established, among whatever else a site dictates as withdraw requirements. They can take as long as they like to pay you regardless of what the "rules" state, because THEY make the rules!
There is absolutely NO WAY for any player to be sure that there are not bots or housies at any site, other than the proclaimations of the owner of honesty and fairness. If sites were as careful to document every player as authentic and be able to show that to their depositing clients, there may be some validity and PROOF in their fairness statements.
I do have facts...it is a fact that same winners exist at every single site I have visited or played at and I am sure that most of you players reading this can attest to that through your own experiences. It is not a spontaneous event that happens in a blue moon, it is an ongoing event that is repeated daily....often year after year. Unless you are depositing great amounts and playing constantly, or are a houseplayer, you will never be one of the regular and constant winners.
As I have said, I do not care what the cost of running a bingo site may be nor more than I care what it cost to run an eatery or a club. If you can not stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, but dont serve up day old, site-edged or complex rhetoric and policy designed to accomodate your assurance of constant profit. As I have been told by many support people and chat hosts,"you have to take the losses with the wins, it is gambling". Good advice for site owners, managers and offshore money launderers too!
If I can not find a fair value for my money without feeling that I have to compensate or subsidize the owner(s) by accepting less than uniform controlled standards , or ever changing rules without notice,I say "no thanks". [-x


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:33 am 
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Quote:
If you can not stand the heat, get out of the kitchen
Great advice!! No one MAKES you play either. YOU are the one who agrees to these rules and regulation when YOU choose to put your money into a site. Does the blame lie elsewhere?

You seem to want to defeat the theory of the players having one bit of power. Well.. they have it ALL! What makes the sites run? Players and their money! No players... no money= NO sites doing business! How can you make such laughable statements about sites having all the power? They have absolutely ZERO! Follow the money trail.. comes straight from the players pockets... tell me WHO has the power again?

I will not go so far as to say I agree with every rules ANY site has, but I can guarantee you, if I did CHOOSE to play, knowing full well what the requirements for withdrawals as well as any other rules a site has, I would not have the flipping nerve to constantly bitch about it.

IF, you are being an active member of BPU to help players, present the things they need to be aware of. Spend the time trying to help changes to be made. Open your mind and allow the changes that HAVE happened to be absorbed, and SUGGEST things one might do to protect themselves if they are going to play. If not, my suggestion to you would be to use the "I really need to bitch" thread.

Fine if you don't like these things. Stop playing. Easy solution.

Quote:
What I am saying about online bingo is that the odds of having that loss are diminished by the "right" of every online owner to establish their own rules and criteria within the arena of gaming.


This is your opinion and mine is that is works for BOTH sides. Players have the same right NOT to accept these rules the same as the sites have the right to implement them. Therefore, players , including YOU, who decide to continue to play have absolutely no "right" to bitch!

When BPU decided to make helping players who chose to continue to play our strong point, we made that decision knowing several things. A couple of those are:

1> No matter how we pointed out bad things players would have to deal with... they OBVIOUSLY are going to continue to play.
2>No matter how many times a day we harped "read and understand the rules FIRST", some still do not. We try to help them anyway!

It was clear to those of us on staff, who had an open enough mind to see all parts of this online gambling industry, players AND sites.. that we would continue to do whatever we could to help one understand the other. With time we have gained more access than we once had and have made admirable headway.

Therefore, those who could not grasp the fact that more than players are involved were asked to step down. NOT because they disagreed, but because they were not on the same track we decided would be best for all involved. Mediation involves OPEN minds!

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but to those who boast about not caring about one side or the other has no business trying to shove their biased and one sided opinions down anyone's throats. Gina you may soothe your own feelings coming in here like a freight train headed for a collision, but you most certainly are NOT helping players to gain important knowledge that may later on protect them as they CHOOSE to continue to play!

Bottom line is.. they are going to play. I will continue as part of BPU to do the best I can do for them. Should a site need our help with scamming players, OMG YESSSSSSS! I said scamming players, because they do exist, we will also hear their story and decide among ourselves if we can or cannot help the situation.

This will be my last response to anything you have to say. I will agree to disagree with you and walk away... unless of course you, in the future, own or work at an online gaming site long enough to have a clue and can offer something besides your one sided blah blah. Or, if your attitudes and methods bring about working relationships with sites to get a players winnings for them... go for it. If your way about you will get ANY online bingo site to work with you FOR a player, I will pay you for lessons. Until then I will use my own. It has opened SEVERAL doors for BPU in our endeavor to help the players!

We had a parting of the ways because of it, and I can certainly see things have not changed. Play or don't play, its up to you. But if you decide to play, don't bitch about the rules. YOU agree to them when you do play. We still try daily to work with sites, and actually have been instrumental in a few changing rules for the betterment of their players. WOW!! Imagine that!

Take care and I wish you happiness :)


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:41 am 
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I can certainly not disagree with you about it being a players option to play or not to play...but I also know there should be other options open to the people with the power to change things...the players! Perhaps they should sit quietly and accept..or walk away.
I do not work for anyone. I receive NO compensation for my opinions, choices or directives that may or may not lead to stimulating the online bingo industry.
Sometimes a freight train must collide before someone realizes the tracks, engine or engineer are not adequate or satisfactory.
I have no conflict of interests in my opinions and expressions. It is simply the way I see things as I have experienced them. They differ from yours, and others, but that is what makes for discovery and change also.
Since you brought it up, Sissy, it was not the "differences" we had at all, it was the manner in which you presented the differences in open forum criticizing, berating and undermining my opinions and behavior. Making remarks that were totally uncalled for and ASSUMING things were the way you personally saw them without making one attempt to have an open, adult conversation in a private setting where you would possibly not be in total control. And you were certainly not alone in that effort to belittle me, being joined by your colleagues to add a pinch or a pound of insults. You may have a bit more experience with the domain of online bingo, but it stops there.
This, being an open forum, I certainly do not expect you to reply to me personally,nor anyone else in particular. A complaint thread should not be monitored for "right or wrong" when presented in a way that does not speak to any site, group or person specifically, and should clearly allow differences, opinions and ideas, even if you think they are not "documented" enough to get your stamp of approval.
I do not have to have years of experience, although I have, in online bingo ( you act like I never played bingo before i was a volunteer here) to comprehend when site rules are balanced heavily in favor of the sites, to grasp the chances of keeping any won monies when odds are against it or the sheer complexities involved in many site policies intended to confuse, stall and control the flow of money in , money out format. It is not my business or responsibility to see the other side and the problems a site faces in trying to make a huge profit.I am just a prospective depositor and a player that will reap nothing from their adventures,or misadventures. When I start getting profit sharing with my "investments" in a site perhaps My tone will be a new sound, but until then it remains a gambling only episode for me, and it is my job to get the most I can from the experience. When that fails, I move on, or get out as I would advise anyone to do.


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:05 pm 
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Wow lets get heated. dyno I agree with you on most of what you said. good Job. i know that the sites are a business and they are in it to make money, like any corporation. and yes sissy no one holds a gun to our heads to deposit. It is true that some don't have places to go so they start online games. What is kind of sad is that the sites make you feel like family "AS LONG AS YOU DEPOSIT OFTEN" and I think thats why some people take what they have and deposit. Some people don't have family or are shut ins. so why not go where they make you feel like you belong. Before you know it you have spent monies you shouldn't have. Oh you may bingo one day a few times, so you think ah huh I am going to win more so I can withdraw or play for a few days. The next thing you know your throwing more in. (yes on your own)
I can't figure out why sites have member levels, you know if you deposit 10,000 or more your lifttime bonus is way up there, well then they have constant specials where everyone gets the same bonus. Why then do they have levels??????? Just question.
I also take into consideration on here, if someone works at a bingo site what they have to say. Like are they saying things to better their site and if you say something will they run back to the site and your done there?
I am just asking I guess.
I choose to depo on my own no one forces me, and when i feel like I am getting over my head I have to take a break. Like last month I did it again. and had no withdraws either. Kind of sad hey? but I m to blame.
Oh I have one more Question, is there a way you can have the processor remove your card from their books, got scammed once and would like to have my card removed from the processor not just the site???
I did not write to offend anyone so if i did, I apologize.
**== **== **== :-bd **== **== **== :-bd
Have a wonderful day.
God Bless


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:29 am 
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I do not work for any site, therefore hold no special interests in promoting or assisting in solving site related problems with players. It will NOT behoove ME in any way! I do not need to claim I have an effective or proficient manner of dealing with issues emanating from site disputes in order to observe, note and evaluate a site to my own satisfaction! I share what I have seen, experienced or felt about particular sites as a player, not as a professional employee. Opinion is often without absolutes, but should not be dismissed as invalid or irrelevant because it is not accompanied by documentation. That is why it is called opinion and not written in stone fact.
Am I biased player? Is a paid employee biased? Are sites themselves biased or prejudicial towards some players? Is everything they tell you the TRUTH? Often what can be 'documented" at a site one day can be non-existent the next day due to their "last word" law and optional rule changing right without notice! It is valuable to be able to see both sides of any issue or format, but know which one will serve you and your purpose regardless of what that may be....and stick to it like glue!


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:05 am 
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I had the same feelings you do Leecee... the same questions. I also wondered why I was so special until I couldn't deposit anymore. Got in over my head more than once.
The day I admitted my addiction TO MYSELF, was the day things started getting better for me.

What I am about to say, to anyone who gambles online and is reading this, is so hard because most people just throw up a mental block and simply do not want to hear it. The frustration you are feeling comes from an illness called addiction. It won't get better until you decide you want your life to be different. No one can deal with our personal demons but us.

Online gambling is the internet ... who are you dealing with? Is the name they give you a "real one"? If you have a problem online, whether gambling or not, is anyone going to care?

I can tell you that I have see the same thing at every site I have ever been to, in any situation.... at first you win, then the wins slack off, then they are hit and miss... seems to happen just when you are ready to give it up, or when you have just bought cards with your last funds. Then it fades and seems as if you couldn't win a game if you were the only one in it. I believe is the way the software is designed! I have no proof, just many many hours of watching. I always did pay more attention than most, to what happens in the games.

I also believe these businesses may emply "profilers". Just my belief.. again, no proof.

I feel sorry for those with worse luck than some, but I feel REALLY sorry for those who haven't come to terms with where the real problem lies. If it isn't fun... don't do it! If you feel something is amiss at the site(s) you play at... don't play there! If you feel things are not on the "up and up", do not give them your money! Be in charge of you.... decide to do things that make your life happy. It is far too short to waste any day.

I am unsure if you can have a processor remove your card or not, but I know you can ALWAYS get a new card from your bank and have that one disabled. This way you know for sure the information the processor's have cannot possibly hurt you.

Wish I could make you feel better Leecees... but I am not magic... just a friend who understands because I walked the road you are on several years ago. Would love to see you smile again :)

And on a final note, the reason sites have levels is to further appreciate those who continue to deposit with them. It would be like a bartender throwing a free beer to someone who has spent money all night long in their bar.


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:00 am 
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As I have roamed around online bingo sites, and I do beleive I have an account at every one that allows U.S.A players, I am appreciating more the slippery slope that is online bingo.
Many sites make you feel welcome, missed, (when you do not deposit) in the chat rooms and games, and the emails can offer a special greeting as though it is directed solely at you.
A particular familiarity is appreciated when you enter a chat room and are recognized by the ch and roomies. Calling an online bingo site your "home" adds a whole new dimension in the strange relationship with a business operation and your personal self.
Many public relation tactics are used quite effectively at some sites. Remembering names, personal info and little tidbits of news gleaned from chat conversations can evoke a trust and loyalty from players that is just not part of a brick and mortar gambling scenario for the most part.
And lets not forget how easy it is to click on that "deposit" button and how tempting those "specials" , tournaments, guaranteed jackpots and drawings can be.
Online bingo can be fun and entertaining, but it can also be destructive,dangerous and lead to ruination.Drawing a line between those distinctions can be a very tough proposition, and it is my feeling that anyone that exploits that vulnerability in any way is without integrity and certainly is not a friend!


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 Post subject: Re: gambling.....a selective option
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:55 pm 
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i didn't know where to ask this so i am just going to my older post.
i was wondering why we are charged to get our winnings? is this a new thing on sites. i finally got to withdraw and they are very nice about it no problem there, but i was charged 15.00 to get my winnings. Is this a common practice? don't know cuz i never had the opportunity to withdraw for over a year or better and there wasn't a fee then. Not bitching just asking. In a way its like if you win the lottery you have to pay to get it. i guess I don't understand.
Can someone enlighten me.
Waiting for check and sure it will come.
:-bd \:D/


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